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  • Vigor G25A1

    Does anybody know whether the subframe of the 5 cylinder on the Acura Vigor is identical (or nearly) to the f-series? I assume the Vigor itself is only slightly larger.

  • #2
    I know this engine has virtualy no aftermarket support. However, I also know that before Honda decided to develope a completely new powerplant for the S2000 they had been developing a DOHC version of the 5 cylinder G25A1 Engine. If a small group of moderately wealthy enthusiast got together, they could have a DOHC cylinder head designed tooled and fab-ed for about 50k. Add $25,000 to cover timing components and you have a baseline to work from. After one was finished you could turn the whole assembly out for four to five thousand dollars. I know this is rediculous really, but I think that the engine whole layout is preferable. I would think the 2.5 liter could be safely raised to 2.8 liters, and that it could produce upwards of 200hp along with a torque curve that would oust any 4-cylinder. Given that it would be slighty heavier it would help to increase traction also. The layout could also simplyfy the intake layout.
    Attached Files

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    • #3
      All of those ideas are nonsense. That kind of money does not exist. Does anyone think this would be a good engine stock anyways?

      Comment


      • #4
        To be fair, there is a little extra unused room in the rear of the engine compartment and maybe this engine could make use of that in an interesting way.

        Honestly though, I think your money is better spent on a different engine. Like you said there is virtually no aftermarket support for the G25. Also, what is the chance of getting a low mileage vigor engine?
        Alex Lear
        attackforums.com administrator

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        • #5
          On the mileage, I drove a vigor for eight months which had above 200,000 miles. I could have sworn the car was only a few weeks old it was so smooth and so resonsive. Also having driven the Accord also, I preffer the Vigors shift.

          Yes having no aftermarket would be a set back, but this engine has a much broader torque band than an H22A. One thing I am having trouble with though is finding out the gear ratio's for the G25A1, any help? But I do know the Prelude transmission grinds when shifting into fifth gear due to mismanufactured shift fork.



          VIGOR
          Average Replacement Cost

          Alternator $385
          Automatic Transmission or Transaxle $1,195
          Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bearing $675
          Constant Velocity Joints $405
          Radiator $525
          Timing Belt $215

          ACCORD
          Average Replacement Cost

          Alternator $355
          Automatic Transmission or Transaxle $1,055
          Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bearing $550
          Constant Velocity Joints $670
          Radiator $485
          Timing Belt $350

          PRELUDE
          Average Replacement Cost

          Alternator $410
          Automatic Transmission or Transaxle $965
          Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bearing $520
          Constant Velocity Joints $675
          Radiator $480
          Timing Belt $250

          Comment


          • #6
            But I do know the Prelude transmission grinds when shifting into fifth gear due to mismanufactured shift fork.
            I've never heard/felt mine grind.

            Seems like if you must change the engine from the F22 or H22, there are better choices in the V6 range.
            Alex Lear
            attackforums.com administrator

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            • #7
              The Vigor engine, aside from the lack of aftermarket support, sounds like an interesting proposition, with some really big drawbacks. The engine in the picture is sitting longitudinally in that engine bay, and IIRC, the Vigor is a rear-drive car. The discussion on how well it shifts really doesn't matter since you're not going to get the rear-drive trans into an Attack. So the next question is, how easily will this engine bolt onto a front-drive trans? And since it has a 5th cylinder, that will bring about more questions on how well it will fit in the engine bay. Will the whole drivetrain need to be shifted to make sure it will fit? Will that mean custom-length axles? That's a problem that some people doing SBC swaps into Fieros have it they use a Zummalt (sp?) based swap kit, or a longer blok such as the LT1/LS1.

              It can all be overcome, and I think seeing a 5-cyl engine under the back deck of an Attack would be really cool, but who's going to want to tackle all of the problems that will arise from trying? I'd love to see the build write-up on this install, if anyone tries it.

              Unfortunately, I can't afford to try doing an Attack now, but after I get my hands dirty swapping a new engine into my Fiero, I might just give it a whirl. The Attack is the best looking kit I've seen in a long time, and I'll be saving up my pennies for a couple years in hopes of getting started on one before my 40th b-day (I'm 37 now). Good luck to all those who are getting theirs built, please let us know how it's coming.

              Jay
              '87 Fiero SE V-6 5sp
              '94 Ducati M900
              '01 Toyota S-runner

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              • #8
                The engine in the picture is sitting longitudinally in that engine bay, and IIRC, the Vigor is a rear-drive car.

                --the Vigor is longitudinal front-engine/front-wheel drive

                And since it has a 5th cylinder, that will bring about more questions on how well it will fit in the engine bay.

                --The engine actually sits further forward than a four, and that would make for better weight distribution

                Will the whole drivetrain need to be shifted to make sure it will fit? Will that mean custom-length axles?

                --I'm not sure whether you would need custom length axles, but I am going to order the helms manual for the Vig ($67!!) and look over all of the details before I come back with a real argument for the practicality.

                It can all be overcome, and I think seeing a 5-cyl engine under the back deck of an Attack would be really cool.

                --indeed

                To Alex; I would think that an inline five would make more torque at a lower rpm than the V6. Also the V6 Accord never came with a manual tranmission, and is OBII (wiring headache). The TL's V6 makes use of an extra .7 liters of displacement (nearly 50 cubin inches) but would be much more difficult to improve upon given the layout and complexity of accessories.

                Also, the drivetrain could be easier to access than the unit on an (H or F)22. On top of that the exaust manifold wouldn't be inches from the firewall and intakes on the side of the car. A turbo would be better off hiding on one side of the engine, than directely behind the occupants. And on top of that, the exaust heat could be carried off by the passenger side intake.

                A friend of mine had a Vigor, he had done what little he could to modify it. Ignition, ECU Chip, Extrude Hone exaust and intake manifold, and an air filter was the extent of the work (also he filed the dimples off of the throttle body butterfly), and he made 190hp at the wheels and 178lbs. of torque! A few mechanic I have talked to seem to think that the factory output numbers were understated in order to avoid cutting into the more expensive Acura's.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jayguy
                  IIRC, the Vigor is a rear-drive car.
                  That's what I thought too at first when I saw the picture but apparently it is a front wheel drive car. I'd love to see how the transmission fits in there.
                  Alex Lear
                  attackforums.com administrator

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                  • #10
                    One of my mechanics mentioned something about the Vigor when we were pouring over a Legend we have in the shop we tore apart for a timing belt. He said something to the effect that one of the driveshafts goes through the oil pan?
                    So what's going in my Attack?
                    "Project Blitzkrieg"
                    Top Secret nowadays

                    In the meantime: 2003 Mazda 6S, debadged, demolded, Hurst T-handle shifter, MSD Stacker-8 Ignition, 160F t-stat, throttle body grounded and coolant bypassed, blackened headlights, Boston Acoustic ProSeries 6.5 component speakers. 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 77,000 original miles, hole in the V6 block to be remedied with a built 350 V8 and GM 462 double-hump heads.

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                    • #11
                      Right now ebay is sporting a Vigor transfer case. The image really confused me more than it helped.

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                      • #12
                        I looked up that pic and I'm confused as well, where does it attach to the engine or does it? I'm gonna look into this.

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                        • #13
                          Here is a cutaway illustraion - It shows the transfer case and right CV boot
                          Attached Files

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                          • #14
                            It looks like the tranny would poke out the back of the car though, here's the pic
                            Attached Files

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                            • #15
                              Ah, that looks a little more workable. I didn't know it had that kind of transaxle. The length out the back might be a problem, however if you could make the case look good and tie it in with the design of the rear lower valance it might be cool. I'm thinking of the looks of a quick-change rear-end like on some hotrods.

                              I wonder if that transaxle could be used in a Fiero? Or one of the GT-40 kits? Guess it would depend on what kind of hp you wanted to make, but it's got my mind reeling with posibilities. Now if only I had the garage and the money to try them all out.

                              Jay
                              '87 Fiero SE V6 5sp
                              '94 Ducati M900
                              '01 Toyota S-Runner

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